Episode Transcript
[00:00:22] Speaker A: Welcome to your life and legacy. I'm Christopher Nudo. Today I want to begin with a question that many professionals quietly carry. Even when life looks successful from the outside, what happens when achievement no longer feels aligned with purpose?
We live in a culture that often celebrates motion, ambition, productivity and advancement.
But a life well lived cannot be measured only by titles, income, influence, or how much we can produce.
At some point, each of us has to ask whether the life we are building reflects what we truly value, who we really are becoming, and the legacy we want to leave behind.
My guest today is Dr. Deepak Bhotra, CEO of Jabulani Consulting LLC. He's a leadership coach, a system thinker, strategic advisor to early stage organizations and Rise Up Career Studio. The author of six fiction and non fiction books, including his laid up release, Rise up, your career reclaimed, Dr. Butra helps founders and professionals build clarity driven, sustainable success through purposeful leadership and emotional intelligence.
His mission is to empower people and organizations to rise with purpose, not pressure.
Now, Dr. Butra, welcome to the show. I'm sure the first thing you're thinking of, what did this guy do to his nose?
I know that was the first thing you were thinking.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: I was thinking it, and I must be honest with you, I felt like I met a kindred spirit because I as well damaged my nose severely once.
And I, sir, can say that I empathize, not just sympathize with you.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: And I appreciate that this is what a pickleball paddle will do.
So here we go. In this first segment, as we begin, I want everyone watching to reflect on their own definition of success.
Is it still serving the person you are becoming, or are you carrying a version of success that no longer reflects your values?
I'm really going to start this conversation with Dr. Boutra by looking at why so many professionals feel successful on paper, but disconnected in practice.
What I really want to get out of this segment is the emotional and practical tension that people are working hard, achieving, leading, building and providing.
Yet many are also navigating burnout, pressure, uncertainty and loss of meaning.
Dr. Butra, how can you help us understand why reclaiming a career is not just about changing jobs, it's about reconnecting work to your identity, value and purposes.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: The reality is that, Chris, and this is one of those things I always talk about, you know, being of Indian origin. I always ask people how many parents or grandparents look into the cradle at that baby and then say, oh, wow, this kid's going to have purpose in this life. He's going to do things as he wishes to do.
Everyone says he's going to be an engineer or a lawyer or something. Something, something, right? And we are just taught that you go to college, you either become an entrepreneur or you get into trade or you get a job. And we are told that you get a job, you'll get a title, maybe you get a promotion, you get married, you get more income.
None of us actually stopped to even ask ourselves, what exactly is this corporate rat race about? Right, Chris? And I think this is what happens. What happens is that you suddenly realize that success has become a checklist. You're reporting back to your parents, reporting back to your wife. You're reporting back to your own ego. Have you got promoted? Have you moved forward? And I think this is the reality. The other reality is that, Chris, you've got a scenario where every day you wake up and you see the AI onslaught. Oracle dumps 30,000 people. This company dumps that many people.
People are now have to force themselves to look inward and ask a very simple question. I have a full calendar, but do I have a fulfilled life? Because everything that I thought I was getting in the bargain, right? Give your service and you will get a job for life. That died 30 years ago. Now we got another problem. Give your intelligence and you have a job. Now we're wondering about who's going to take my intelligence. Maybe it's AI. So with all this stuff, I always feel that purpose is you didn't have it. You will always feel disconnected. But the only way to connect back is also by having purpose. Because purpose is a north start that's going to drive you forward. So, Chris, I love this question to start things off for sure.
[00:05:17] Speaker A: So excellent answer and I really appreciate you bringing focus to the conversation here. So what are the practical steps that people need to take to really reclaim their career instead of just advancing it in the meaningless way you mentioned to me?
[00:05:36] Speaker B: It's pretty simple, you know. I mean, if you have a North Star, then you're thinking that you're advancing forward, right? But when you don't have a North Star, you're only advancing. Now, is it forward, is it backward? I don't know. But reclaiming simply means that you're moving in the right direction because you have a purpose and a goal. And what, in my opinion, is that when we talk about burnout? Because that's how you introduce this segment as well, right, Chris, to me, when you are reclaiming your career, what you're saying is that I'm reclaiming my career on my own terms. And when you are on your own terms, you are then on your own value system, and you have your own purpose. And to me, I've realized one thing in all the work I've done, Chris, is that people suffer from burnout when they lack purpose. They don't know what this effort was for. They go to bed tired but restless. Whereas when you are doing something with purpose, you go to bed tired but not restless because you know you achieve something. And I think that's the reality. So if you want to differentiate between. It's about, you know, don't just climb the ladder. Figure out which wall the ladder is against. That's how, Chris, I tell my clients to think about things.
[00:06:35] Speaker A: I love that. And is the wall that the ladder is against? Is now that your definition of purpose? Because I'm, I'm sitting here thinking of our audience and so many have heard, live your life with purpose. But, but, but then they, you know, get dressed, get in their car, go to work, or these days, sign in in their kitchen or living room.
And, and, and next thing you know, their next time they hear the word purpose is when somebody says, live your life with purpose. How does one define their purpose? How does one focus in and really live life with purposes?
[00:07:16] Speaker B: It's not easy, Chris. I mean, look, what is purpose? First of all, right? Purpose depends upon your upbringing. Purpose depends on what you have in mind. For me, I've always realized that, you know, people need to understand purpose is a part of the value system, right? Purpose also is. If it's a North Star, then you need to first decide, is this something that will give me the satisfaction that I am craving? Is it something that if I were to achieve, I would feel really cool about? I've also asked people to judge per purpose on one simple metric. If your purpose is shallow and you're on your deathbed, you will not think about that purpose because it was not meaningful. But when you're on your deathbed, you'll either feel achievement because you achieve that purpose, or you're at least moving towards it, or you're going to feel really agree that you never made that purpose. Purpose. Is that what I call constant validation? It's going to keep you going. It's also going to make you get through misery, get through discomfort, because you know that there's a bigger purpose to it for a lot of people. And this is where the conflict comes. What is this purpose? Right? Some people want joy. Some people want balance. Some people want more money. And look, I'm very careful how I say this, Chris, right? Ambition is actually healthy as long as it's guided with purpose. That's how I would position it. And your definition of purpose is ultimately your definition of purpose. I cannot come up and say to you, I can critique it, I can criticize it, but at the end of the day, it's like arguing against your own kids. You cannot choose between three kids that you have your purpose. You have to see from your own lens, and you have to decide upon it.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: Yeah, and that's excellent. And what happens if people are heading down the road and, you know, now they're watching the show and really resonating with what you're saying, and they realize they're on the wrong road or they're not becoming the person they want to be?
What are. What are the practical steps they should start with to really start reclaiming?
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Here's the fun part. Remember, I kind of earlier alluded that when you go to bed, you're extremely tired, but you're very satisfied. That tells you that the path you're on is a strong one. So I always tell my clients, look carefully at your sleep patterns. You do what I call. You know, you work very hard, work very hard, and you get the definition of success. But. But that success is feeling more heavier than you normally do, Right?
To me, that means that you're performing. You're not doing what is supposed to give you purpose or that fulfillment. I don't know how to say this to you, but, you know, you get a plate of food, Chris, and on that plate of food, there's five items on it. There's one that you hate, there's four that you really enjoy. But satiety will not be achieved by just. How do you say this? Eating only the stuff that you like or the stuff that you don't like? Get a mix of both. But when you are choosing and when you're doing the things the right way, you feel something different. That difference is one of the things that you see in sleep you're going to see in behavior as well. I have personally realized that, you know, when people are not managing the energy or when people are working, they're going to first see the impact on energy. You will actually avoid things that you don't want to do because you can't see if you can connect to it. You ask yourself, on a scale of 1 to 10, how much meaning did I get in the day? And if your score is at five or below, you have some major calibration to do.
So the question, honestly is, are you growing in the role or are you just growing for the sake of growing? And that's the definition that I would say that. And here's the reality. You're doing work because you sense an obligation to it. It's like a bad marriage. Chris, I don't know how to explain this to you.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Right.
[00:10:39] Speaker B: You're in a marriage and you're only stuck in it because of the obligation that you feel towards this person that you convinced to marry you. But every night you go to bed distressed, you just don't feel comfort in it. Right. I think that's the reality. Do you feel the same for your job? If you do, then you definitely are on the wrong track and you don't have the right purpose. And that's when you need to figure it out.
[00:10:58] Speaker A: Yeah, that's excellent. And it's funny that you brought up marriage in that because I was actually thinking that this was profound in relationships as well, you know, because your work is a type of relationship, your career is a type of relationship, and of course you, your marriage is the ultimate in relationships. And so I'm so glad you brought that all together.
You know, I know there's going to be a lot of people watching here, are going to start focusing on their sleep patterns after this and wonder why they're waking up in a cold sweat at 3 o' clock in the morning. But now perhaps it'll be something they can resonate with with regard to their purpose.
So what we're, what I hear in this part of the conversation is that success can be a gift. It can also be a burden when it's disconnected from meaning. The the goal is really not to abandon ambition. The goal is to redeem it, align it, and make it sure that it serves life in the way that it really matters. We're going to take a really short break and when we come back, we're going to talk about leadership and as stewardship and why emotional intelligence is essential for people who want to build something that lasts. Stay tuned.
Welcome back to your life and legacy.
Stay connected to this show and every NOW Media TV favorite live or on demand. Anytime you'd like, Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku or iOS and unlock non stop bilingual programming in English and Spanish. Hey, are you on the move? Why don't you catch our podcast version? You can find that at NowMedia TV. From business and news to lifestyle, culture and beyond, Now Media TV is streaming around the clock. Ready whenever you are. Hey, I'm here today with Dr. Deepak Butra, CEO of Jabulani Consulting LLC. And now I want to move from career purpose to leadership responsibility.
Leadership is never only about performance.
It's about stewardship. It's about how we influence people, how we make decisions, how we handle pressure, and how we create environments where people can grow without losing themselves.
For leaders who care about legacy, the question is not only did I achieve my goal, it's also how did my leadership shape the people entrusted to me? Dr. Boutra, can you speak to founders and professional and organizational leaders who want success with integrity?
[00:14:27] Speaker B: So we spoke about stewardship. You know, it's a big word, right?
Success, integrity. And if you're a leader. For me, when we define leadership, I've always said that leadership is. A lot of people think of leadership as a hierarchical achievement, right? Let's just call that being a manager. Leadership is actually something that can happen even to an individual contributor, right? This is someone that is actually taking his leadership as a responsibility and not as a privilege. It's not given by the system or the hierarchy. It's attained by something. I've always said, and I like the use of the word stewardship that you had there, Chris. For me, stewardship kind of implies a very powerful word, followership, right? And I always tell this to people. For someone to become a leader, you actually need to have followership. Someone has stood up and said that they look at the work you do, they see how you help others grow and that you're not out to gain more power. That's when people become followers and that's how you actually get leadership. So I, I hope that answers that question, Chris.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: No, it, it's great. And so, you know, with these leaders that have earned it because they have followership, you know, what responsibilities do they have for, you know, emotional health, clarity and growth of the people that honestly, they're responsible for.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: Here's the fun part, right?
Let me give two aspects to that. Number one is the leader's own emotional health and clarity. What I've actually realized is that there's an equation that leaders have to manage. A lot of leaders are personally beating themselves up, working 24 by 7, surviving on diet Coke and cigarettes, and then expecting their team to behave differently and have better emotional health. You have to set the example. You can give people lectures, but when people see you emulating what you are saying, that becomes powerful. In fact, you don't even have to say it if you do it the right way. If you are leaving the office at five o' clock every day as a leader, you are actually telling people that it is okay. To leave at five o' clock every day. Today, in a day of technology, I mean, Chris, how much. How many of us actually shut down at 5? We don't, right? We get in our cars, we get home, and then after dinner, we've connected again, right? Or taking a call or, you know, sending emails. So the reality is, for me, I have always said to a leader that, you know, if you're trying to create trust, you need to create clarity. And to create clarity, you need to have psychological safety. People believe you. People believe that what they say will not build against them. And that is when you get magic. And I've always said this, and people tell me that Deepak, culture eats strategy for breakfast. I agree with that. Culture is very important, and leadership has a massive responsibility to deliver that culture.
And to me, if you can be a great leader, Right, Chris, and the culture will be there. If you are not taking care of yourself, people will see that, and you will be surprised as to how you undermine your own culture. That's the dual point answer I wanted to give so that this should not become about someone taking care of their people, but someone taking care of themselves so that the people can see that this man is not just about us, but he's about himself also. That's longevity. That's career longevity.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: And that makes perfect sense, right? Because we've always heard that if you want a hundred percent out of the people that you're leading, you have to give 120%. But if you're giving 120% and it's costing you, if you're doing destructive things to yourself as a result by, you know, not sleeping enough, not eating properly, like you said, Diet Coke and cigarettes, what a terrible combination.
You know, then you're gonna just kind of reap what you are sowing. So I want to get to a term that called emotional intelligence and kind of the way leaders make decisions under pressure. And can you unpack what emotional intelligence is and how a leader is really supposed to act under pressure versus contrast that with what you've seen in the workplace where people aren't doing that.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: Well, here's the fun part. I have read so many definitions in emotional intelligence that I confuse myself. So I'm going to elevate myself above all of this, and I'm going to just answer it as follows. So we recognize that there's emotion, right? Not just of self, but in others. Now, the intelligence is the ability to recognize it. And the way I look at this is that the question that you ask, Chris is a Powerful one, right? What happens to decisions under pressure? Well, pressure is so classic. When you're under pressure, you're going to see things in a very different way. And I'm an ex sales guy, right Chris, and I'll give you a classic example and you will agree with this. If you are 80% of quota and the deal that you're going to go talk to a customer about is going to get you at 100%, are you thinking about solving the customer's pain or are you thinking about solving your quota gap? And when you're thinking about your quota gap, you know what's going to happen? You're going to say all the wrong things. You're going to become salesy, going to push hard. And what happens when you push hard? People fight back. No one likes to be sold, right? No one likes to be sold to. They actually want to get into discovery process and figure out what's going on.
So for me, if it's pressure, then you will narrow perspective. Just. And to me, when you're emotionally intelligent and actually thinking through it in a congruent manner. And the biggest trick I can teach anyone listening in right now is just please pause before reacting. That's the single biggest way to kick off the emotional intelligent element in you.
When you hear something and you know what they say, you know he bristled, he got a red tinge to his forehead, his spine, there was anger that's moved up his spine, just pause. And one of the tricks my boss taught me, and it's a funny trick and this is a sales guy, he used to watch my reactions with salespeople, with customers and he said, told me I want you to pause. I want you to pause not because you need to be winning the argument, because I need you to actually let it hit you what the person on the other side is saying or doing and then think about it and then remove the tone and focus on the message that you need to deliver back. And when you get the message right, you're going to see things moving forward. And I was very surprised by that because he was spot on. It was spot on. When I am taking that pause, I'm now responding with intent, Chris, not with emotion. And when you've got very difficult moments, which most of us do in life, right, Being very self aware about this is what I call the strategic advantage in the day and age. So for me I just call it pause process. What's going on now? Proceed. Ppp Pause process, proceed.
And if someone doesn't get it, just remember, just Remember that? Very simple. Just hold, don't say the first thing that comes to your mind. I, I built a reputation on that. In fact, I'm banned from funerals because I say things that should not be said in public.
And, and then, then you learn that self awareness is the starting point. Make that a strategic advantage.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: So, so I have a question for you. So I, I completely agree 100%, but this is kind of the, and, and I'd love to know what your boss would have said about this. So, you know, I'm going to take it back to the home, you know, and, because I'm sure this happens at the workplace as well. But my wife is classic for saying.
Your face said it all.
And I'm like, oh, what do you mean I didn't say anything, honey, you know, you know, like, you know, so when I'm getting excited, I'm getting upset or something says bristles me. And I, I, I do pause, but I can't help my face. It just probably says it all.
How do you help people who have that problem?
[00:22:13] Speaker B: With immense difficulty. You've, you've raised something very powerful.
And we've, we've said this. The spoken word or these mechanical devices will fail if your body language is saying something totally different.
I mean, I have a 26 year old, right, and he calls me one day and he says to me, dad, I was in a meeting and my boss said to me, you need to improve your energy levels. What does he mean? I says, most likely that you're in the room and you're looking disassociated or your face is showing that this is boring.
So it is a very valuable question you're asking, Chris. My advice to people is as follows. The human expression is always going to be two steps ahead of whatever your brain is thinking you're going to do, right?
Acknowledge it, Say, I must be honest. Your question is actually very interesting and it confused me a bit. But now that I think about it, that also is another way of pausing, right? You are still acknowledging what happened to your face, but also acknowledging that it's. Now you process that and now that. Use that as the pause to come back without that bristling or the dread or whatever. Is it easy to do? No, but the reality is that, and I've always said this to people, you know, Chris, it's very easy for a good solid salesperson to do that. Why? Because he does not want to offend the buyer because he has something to lose.
So the question you need to ask yourself is when you're in a critical conversation or a crucial or a difficult conversation, what do you have to lose? If you have that in mind, you will actually realize for a leader it's I will lose the respect of the person. And if you're going to lose the respect of the person that isn't that a good enough reason to then pause, manage what you're doing? We talk about tone, but the body also has a tone. And you're spot on, Chris. And that I would say is ultimate emotional intelligence, where your body and your brain and your paws or those mechanical devices that I spoke about are all in sync and it's not easy, but I think with conscientious self awareness and focus, you can do it.
[00:24:08] Speaker A: What an awesome answer. What stands out here is that leadership is one of the most visible ways we live out our values.
People may remember what we built, but they also remember how we treat them and how we made decisions and whether our leadership made them stronger or smaller. We need to take a short break, but when we return, we'll talk about reinvention and why beginning again can be a powerful part of of legacy. Stay tuned.
Foreign.
If you're watching this and sensing that a chapter in your life or career is changing, this is the part of the conversation to really lean into reinvention. It's not always about failure. Sometimes it's faithfulness to the next season.
I'm continuing with Dr. Deepak Bhutra. And now I want to talk about reinvention. Many people resist reinvention because they see it as starting over and who wants to do that. But sometimes the most important life transitions require us to release an old definition of success so that we can step into something more honest, more purposeful and more sustainable responsibility. Reinvention is not just a career strategy career strategy, it's a, it can be spiritual, emotional, a practical act of stewardship.
And what I want to really tie this back to where we left off in our last segment because I think there's real value for men and women.
When we run into the situation where we do pause, we're quiet and we're thinking we're implementing our emotional intelligence. But our face is saying a totally different picture and our face is telling a whole different story. Dr. Boutra, give tell us what we can do and how this really impacts
[00:26:50] Speaker B: the real world tremendously. If you think about it, Chris, we when you are talking to someone and he is quoting scripture, but his eyes are looking around at the women in the audience as an example, right?
Isn't that like a Disjoint the words or what's happening is not matching up with what the face or the intent is about. And I think that's extremely critical in relationships in particular, right? We tend to drop the guard. The question that I typically ask is that when you are selling and when you are sitting with a seller selling, do you not watch what you say or do? Then when, why do we drop the guard when it comes to our own family or our own loved ones? Right? And I am guilty of that. I'll come home. As an example, Chris and I walk up to the wife and she's sitting there with this look on her face and I ignore it or I miss it. And I started giving her a long oh, I had a bad day at work, and this and that. And then she suddenly looks at me and she says to me, did you not sense?
Can you not see?
And that's when you realize the self awareness that is required actually is to be in the moment, be present, and actually back down. You're not the most important person in the room. This is something my wife quoted to me multiple times. She said to me that, Deepak, you have a behavioral pattern. Yes. I recognize you're highly intelligent, but understand one thing. When you interrupt people, when you disrupt their thought process as explaining something to you, or when someone's saying something, you say, I know where you're going. She says, it's not about your intelligence, it's about what they are feeling in the moment. You have just told someone that your idea is not worthy of being brought into the sun and that hurts people. And if you do it once, twice, thrice, Chris, all you're doing is you're discouraging people from sharing. Right? And in any corporate world, Chris, if you think about it, people ideating, people building upon each other's ideas is exactly the thing you need to nurture. And if your goal is to bring the best out of humanity, then, ladies and gentlemen, you have to control what's happening on the face. And I just did the John Cena moment, right?
You have to control that and you have to match it to what you're trying to say. When there's a disjoint, people will look at you as deceitful as two faced. And I can assure you I'm not jumping to a conclusion. I've spoken to people by your mannerisms, by your behavior. I was talking to a customer of mine who declined an offer for the simple reason that when they were giving him the offer, the guy kept looking outside the window while Talking to him, making the offer, and to him, that was disrespectful. It meant that there was something else going on or this was so boring for the guy, that I was not worthy his time, and he didn't feel right enough taking the job, that he felt that this culture is one I cannot fit into.
It stunned me. But what if that was just something that the guy inadvertently did?
And this is what happens. We think we are being innocent in what we do, but the impact on others is what we miss.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: Well, and I think you can apply that to so many things, right? You can apply that to looking out the window. You can look at, you know, we have these smart devices, right, that are on our wrist, and they're constantly buzzing and pinging us and, you know, vibrating and, you know, when we're in a meeting, and I'm so guilty of this, you know, I'll be distracted, and that will lose the attention of the people you're sitting with.
And I had one client one day tell me, he said, oh, your shock collar went off. And I thought to myself, indeed, that's what this is.
And so your message is so clear. And what I really want to stress here is Dr. Butra is talking about the corporate world, but he's also talking about our relationships with our spouses, our relationships with our kids, our relationships with our family, because if we can get those right, we'll also get the relationships at work, right?
You can't live in one space and another when you come home.
You got to live in one space, as Dr. Butra has identified.
So can you help?
Can you help our viewers understand the difference between temporary difficulty and misalignment, between fear and wisdom, between pressure and calling? You know, I mean, these are. These are opposites, right?
So, you know, let's start with calling, because I think that's one of the most misunderstood things. You talk about purpose. How does your purpose and a calling go together?
[00:31:20] Speaker B: For me, this is interesting.
Calling and purpose, in my opinion, is the same coin, just two sides and just two vocabulary differences, right?
A calling, I think people assume is like a spiritual need or a desire that come beckons. I get that. And North Star is so, to me, calling comes from inside, whereas the purpose, or a North Star is something that is outside, that you're moving towards.
Put the two in tandem, I think is the same thing. In my opinion. In my opinion, right. From a jaundiced viewpoint. But for me, when you feel that your purpose is allowing you to respond to something from inside that is satisfied by Doing that, right? So as an example for me personally, post Covid Chris, I decided that I want to spend more time building my own business and actually coaching people for greatness. Right. I then started realizing that I wanted to focus on young people, young meaning 21 to 30 year olds. So that's what I focused on. So for me, my calling, my purpose was to uplift people, but the calling there was that I wanted to give back to humanity everything I learned the last 34 years. And that's how I ended up balancing things.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: I love that. So let's talk a minute about reinvention. Because, you know, for those people who don't have purpose and they're like, okay, I've identified my purpose, but I'm in the wrong job, I am in the wrong career. I definitely instead of wanted to go this way, I'm now going to go that way. That takes complete reinvention. That's starting over. And for many people, why is that so difficult?
[00:33:02] Speaker B: You know, the funny thing is that I would argue that it's one of the top three issues that the world faces today is that people have gone into what I call, you know, a comfort zone. Right? And now you're asking people that you're in a comfort zone. Most of them maybe are making good money as well, right? And here's the fun part. We have a role and we have an identity and we're in a comfort zone. The both have become the same.
And now when you disrupt that and you say to someone that, hey, we need you to reinvent yourself, we need you to do something. And there's two ways to reinvent yourself. One is race to where the puck is going. Right? I know it sounds weird, Chris. Or wait for the puck to hit you on the. No race to where the puck is going. You are essentially reinventing yourself by being one step ahead. It's now in your control.
The other reinvention that occurs is when you lose your job. And when you lose your job, I've always told this to people. It is the most discomfort that you're going to feel in your life. Because it's not that you've been moved out of your comfort zone, it's that you've been moved out of your comfort zone by someone else and someone else is doing not by choice. This is the difference between voluntary and involuntary. Right? And this is so powerful for me that I've always said to people, you got to be very, very careful. Now, when people need to change by themselves and do something of their own way, Volition such as, you know, go to where the puck is going as an example. Deepak, I am a great lawyer, but I now realize that the legal function is under threat from AI. I would like to use AI to my favor right now. The question is he needs to change his skills and his direction, not totally reinvent himself. The reinvention is not necessarily 180 degree flip, right?
It's actually sometimes just a 360. You go back and you come back to where you are, but you come back rejuvenated with something different.
And this is what I always tell people.
People always think that reinvention means, you know, complete trajectory breakdown, that you're going X. Now you go Y. No. Reinvention can also mean subtle deviation. So if you look at it mathematically right, Chris, and I know the people on the call are going to be sitting there thinking, oh, my God, there's maths. I didn't come here from the maths. Simple. When you start on a single point moving into two different directions, after a year, the distance is not that much between the two lines, but after five years, the distance is tremendous.
So what does not look like a reinvention is actually a reinvention magnified after five or ten years if you remain on that trajectory.
So don't think of reinvention as something that is so rapid, so immense, that you just juggle and change everything. Right? If you walk home, it's adding a baby to the family. That also is reinvention. It's not about walking home and you find there's a totally new wife and a totally new set of kids, which is the neighbor's kids or someone else's kids. You know, they do those schools, swaps with family swaps and all. That's not what we're talking about. So I've always told people that when you're reinventing, it's not that you're throwing away your experience. You're actually building on the experience. You're taking that wisdom that you have into new chapter. And I think that's what's important.
People think that reinvention is about starting over. It's not, Chris. It's about starting wiser now. You figure out a game plan and a pathway to the future.
[00:36:05] Speaker A: We only have a minute left here in this segment, but I want to touch on one thing that you said, and it was, you know, when people involuntarily have to change because they lost their job, isn't that the, you know, why is it that some people spiral down and other people look at it as it as opportunity. And I think what you're trying to let our viewers know is this is really an opportunity. And give us in 30 seconds what, you know, what that opportunity can look like.
[00:36:39] Speaker B: It's pretty simple. You have wisdom. You have been meaningful. Your purpose is still there. Your meaning is still there. You feel it's been taken away from you. You got to get that agency back. And the agency is that you still exist. You still have a family. You still have value to give. Your role was demolished, not you. Focus on the you and come back with a vengeance. That's the only way to give what, what do Americans call it, you know, cold pie or cold turkey, you know, to pay it off by. This is how you hit it back on other person's face. Come back with a vengeance.
[00:37:08] Speaker A: Yes, that's such a great answer. And so as we exit this segment, this reminds us that legacy is not built only through the chapters that go according to plan.
Sometimes life doesn't go as planned, but legacy is also built through the moments when we listen, adjust, learn, and have the courage to move forward with wisdom.
Sometimes beginning again is not the end of the story. It's the point where the story becomes aligned. We're going to take a short break and when we come back, we'll close with systems, purpose and what it really means to rise without being ruled by pressure.
Stay tuned.
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I'm here with Dr. Deepak Butra, CEO of Jabulani Consulting.
And as we close, I want to bring this conversation back to the heart of legacy. Dr. Boutra's mission is to help people and organizations rise with purpose, not pressure. That idea matters because pressure can produce motion, but purpose gives direction.
Pressure can push us to perform, but purpose helps us build with wisdom. Pressure may create short term results, but purpose shapes a legacy that endures. In this final segment, we're going to bring together leadership, emotion, intelligence, systems, thinking and stewardship in a meaningful way.
Dr. Butra, can you help us by starting the segment by speaking to the daily structures and internal commitments that help people protect the energy relationships and bring clarity and value to what they do?
[00:40:21] Speaker B: I'VE always told people, right, Chris, it's like when you wake up in the morning, kind of know you gotta, you know, maybe go to the window, look out, brush your teeth, take a shower, then you start your routine. In the same way when we talk about pressure and how real life operates, right, you need to just focus on the decision that you need to make. And one of the things I realized is that a lot of people make decisions based on the fear of loss. And I always tell them you need to make decisions based on what is the success, then figure out the metrics that reflect that success and take it from there.
Purpose. I've always said this and I've said it. We have discussed purpose on this call many times and I like the twist you gave to it, Chris, about calling, right. I think calling is very important because calling gives that a bit of a spiritual inclination and sometimes that's what you need to. So for me, I've always said to people, right, that if you are starting your day and you're going to work on things down.
My point is not to tell you to reduce your goals. No, Chris, that's not what we're saying.
Our goal is not less ambition. Our goal is healthier ambition. Write down what matters, Write it down as to the steps you're going to take and you're going to work on those with purpose, not under pressure. Because you now clearly know how you're going to daily routine is going to work, right? Most issues that occur is because of. I've always said this to people. It's not time management, Chris, it's actually prioritization. You prioritize the wrong things at the wrong time. That's when you realize you have no time left for the real stuff. Figure that out. 90% of the work we do is actually noise. 10% is really meaningful. And Rockstar salespeople, Rockstar VPs, typically know what to focus on. And I think that's the issue here.
[00:41:53] Speaker A: And that transitions right into my next point that I'd like you to speak on. And that's systems. Because I, I know that people who have good systems and that's just could be as simple as how you prioritize, really bring things together much better and don't have those pressures. So what are some of the daily systems or priorities that people should be starting to think about and implement so, so that they don't have pressures, they have purpose.
[00:42:27] Speaker B: Chris, let's go back to that manager of mine that I spoke about, right, My ex boss and he said, hey, I'd Love to hear more about this boss of yours. So let's tell you a story about that boss of mine, right?
I once said to my boss, I really appreciate you. I think you're a rock star salesperson. And I can see that you built an amazing legacy, right? How do you do it? And he looked at me funny and he said to me, well, I never even thought that I built a legacy. I just did what needed to be done.
So the question to me that I asked him then was, what did you do that needed to be done? And here's what really upset me a bit. I was hoping for a massively complex answer. And here's what he said, dude, all I did was worked on every moment as if it was the biggest moment of my day.
And I looked at him like, huh? Number two, he says, the same choices will come up again and again and again. Get better at figuring out the right choices. Isn't that powerful if you think about it, boss, at the end of the day, life at work at least is repeat, repeat, wash, wash, rinse, rinse, right? So the question is, why then do we go in convoluted? If something has worked, make sure you do it. Double down on it. Make sure that the daily habits become your behaviors. Behaviors will ultimately become culture. And there's something he said that really blew my mind.
Behavior is something that you need to measure in sales. If I need to make 20 cold calls a day, then I need to make 20 cold calls a day, right? And I know that if I don't make the 20 cold calls a day, I'm not going to get those three or four meetings per week that I need. If I can't get my three or four meetings per week, I am not going to make the billing revenue or the deal that I need to make to make my numbers. It's all connected. That's why his point was, daily habits, when they become behaviors that are measurable that you can critique, it's not saying you look fat. You have to stand on a scale and say, oops, I am fat, right? And then focus on that and his goal. And he said to me that work hard with your people to make them understand one thing. They need to know what they need to repeat today, what have they become good at? And just keep doing that. Goodness. Sometimes the texture of the goodness will change, right? Because the problem is complex, but the reality is that you're still going. It's like your hair with no hair. I still comb it, but I comb it differently. But when I had lots of Hair. I combed it differently. But you're still combing.
But the style of combing changes. And he said, ultimately, that's it. And those small choices is how we created a lasting legacy where we looked at what he had achieved both from a monetary network point of view, but more the respect that he commanded of people who wanted to learn from him.
[00:44:56] Speaker A: Oh, it's terrific. You had such a brilliant boss.
And I love the wisdom and the way you took his legacy and how he did it. And you've transformed it yourself by just learning it, doing it, and now teaching it. Dr. Butra, that's.
Our viewers are very fortunate to have you with us today.
So people who are pursuing excellence, how can they do that without being consumed by. I need more, I need more, I need more, I need more. Because I don't believe that pursuing excellence and driving yourself crazy with this constant striving, I don't think they go hand in hand, do they? But I feel that our audience may have some confusion about that.
[00:45:50] Speaker B: It's not just your audience, Chris. I'm confused about it, right? Here's the problem, right?
The reality is that human beings, and we've been kind of told, do your job.
You know, cleanliness is next to godliness. So therefore many of us get obsessive about cleanliness, like washing hands regularly, you know, cleaning the countertop consistently.
Forget all the big words. Just step back for one second and ask yourself a question. What is your definition of excellence?
If excellence is growth, which is measured every quarter by a skill that you add to your resume, then you're on the right track.
But if you're measuring excellence by the promotion of on your resume that you want every quarter, then you are simply constantly striving, as you put it, Chris, right? All you're doing is that you're like that hamster on the treadmill. Immense energy being wasted, but you're getting nowhere.
So for me, this is very important for people. And say this. When you are striving, you're actually forcing unhealthy behaviors because you're now linking your self worth. My promotion is something I need to strive for, whereas growth is what you need. You need promotion is the outcome of the growth you will have in your role. When you start thinking about things like that, that's when you realize how important that is. And I always tell people, you have a role, you have an identity.
Separate the two. Your identity always survives. Your role will die.
[00:47:11] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. And so you put all those pieces together. You put all those pieces together. And you're creating the necessary foundation to live your life the way you want to, with the purpose as you started out as your calling. So, Dr. Butra, let our audience know if they want to learn more about Rising up, if they want to learn more about your consulting. And how can they reach you, sir?
[00:47:40] Speaker B: I am president on LinkedIn. I pay them rental for it. I am there four hours a day.
I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn because most of my revenue comes from LinkedIn. I've built a network there.
My website is pretty straightforward actually. I am building a new initiative. It's called Rise up at Work. It is focused on 21 to 30 year olds who are early in their career, cannot afford coaching because it's expensive. Also feel that cigarettes and Diet Coke will get through some life. And my caution is I'm not against ambition. I want to help you with that ambition so I can tell people to look me up on RiseUpAtWork.com that's where we're building it out. We're busy right now raising funds on We Funder as well. It's a startup and age 55. Chris. Yes. I decided to bring my ideas to life because I was helping other people bring their ideas to life and they challenged me that boss, you have so much to give. Why aren't you doing something unique? So here I am on LinkedIn, building my own coaching practice, doing sales coaching, sales training that I love. While building out something for 21 to 30 year olds to help them get better at what they do. Because the world has changed, Chris. Whether you like it or not, it's a different world. We live in AI the socioeconomic employment contract is gone, it's been torn. Companies really are looking at you to build your own career and focus on it yourself.
[00:48:56] Speaker A: That's right. And I'm going to be sending my two sons to check out that website with them so they can get the wisdom you have to share. Dr. Boutra, I'm so happy that you've joined us today and hopefully people will look at your Rise up website. You're getting your book career reclaimed. And again, I just want to thank you so much for sharing your wisdom, your emotional intelligence, if I can say that, the reinvention and purpose and everything you've shared.
You know what this conversation reminds me of is the fact that legacy is not only what we leave behind, it's what we practice today. It's how we lead, how we choose, how we respond to pressure and how we align our work with the values that matter most. And to everyone watching, we invite you to keep living with intention, leading with integrity, giving with purpose, and building a legacy worth remembering. Stay connected.
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